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10 Tips: CRO + CMO = LOVE
Building Lasting Leadership
Tolithia Kornweibel
CRO
Gusto
@GustoHQ
10 Tips: CMO + CRO = Love....Building Lasting Leadership with Gusto's CRO
WHO ARE YOU?
(Apologies for the predictable hand-raising exercise.)
TIPS IN TWO CHUNKS
CHUNK ONE:
HIRING THE RIGHT LEADERS
CHUNK TWO:
EMPOWERING THE RIGHT LEADERS
"This candidate spent a year in their last job, 18
months at the job before that, and 9 months at
the role before that. Too risky. Bring me
someone with longer tenures."
From: “Why CMOs Of Growth-Stage Companies
Can Have Short Tenures” by Erica Seidel,
FORBES
TIP 1
DON’T BELIEVE THE HYPE
Avoid sending signals you expect drama.
TIP 2
ALWAYS BE NETWORKING
Use your network to learn what you need to do
differently, not to find the perfect fit.
TIP 3
BETTER RECRUITING
Please, and thank you.
It’s Basically Mad Libs
I’ve been asked directly by the CEO _______________ to reach out to you. He has an
incredible track record, taking __ companies public and having __ additional successful
exits. This is their first sales/marketing executive hire so you’ll get to build your own team.
You’ll report directly to the CEO.
This is a unique opportunity to create an entirely new category: ________________.
The company has already raised $____ million and is valued at $_____ million/billion!
The market is huge: $_____ billion is up for grabs.
The company is poised for disruption, with investors who were early in on ____________,
____________, and ____________.
Try this instead
Hi Tolithia, I’m the CEO of a Series ___ startup..
We are trying to help ___________ customers be able to ____________.
So far, we’ve been able to reach _____________ customers. We know we’re doing well
with ______________ because of ______________, but we have a lot left to figure out
like ______________, _______________, and ______________.
I’d be really interested in picking your brain for 30 minutes. Yes - we’re looking for a new
leader. But just the opportunity to connect would be huge for me.
I understand your time is valuable, so if this is not a good time, I respect that. Any
additional referrals or thoughts are greatly appreciated!
TIP 4
KNOW YOUR MODEL
Or be clear that you don’t.
Market Model Guides Leadership Model
High Velocity / Low ACV / Product-led
● Hire CMO first. Strategic business
leader. Owns revenue. Let CMO
have a vote in CRO hire.
Opposite
● Hire CRO/CSO first. Strategic
business leader. Owns revenue.
CRO hires and manages CMO.
Signs
Durable Sales Leaders
Repeatability > relationships
Move the middle > Lamborghini for 1
Rule of 40 > valuation
Inspires customers and team
Experimentally solid
Durable Marketing Leaders
ROI > budget
LTV/CAC > cost per lead
Viral coefficient > brand awareness
Inspires prospects and stakeholders
Experimentally solid
If you don’t know your model(s): counter-intuition
You need MORE experienced CRO or CMO, not less. (A “full stack” person is a high-level
person; else they’ve never gone deep.)
Matchmake for chemistry and trust: you don’t know where the role divisions will land.
You want a hands-dirty person, but not a playbook-as-default person. (Beware
“accelerated implementation.”) Back-channel for “multiple altitude flyer.”
Pay cash. A lot. Performance-based is fine.
Don’t run your culture where only product or tech are given esteem. If you haven’t yet
figured out how to distribute, distribution is more than tactical execution. Those of us who
can help you won’t tolerate being diminished.
TIP 5
EXPECT IMPACT
Demand progress
TIP 6
BOTH DRIVE REVENUE, LTV
Don’t oversimplify
Who owns revenue? Drives LTV?
Who owns the CAC budget?
Who is the best at our pitch?
Who spends time with customers?
Who influences product?
Who runs experiments?
Who drives merchandising?
Etc...
We do
We do
We are
We do
We do
We do
We do
Etc...
TIP 7
EXPECT EXPERTISE
At your leadership table, we must lead
How to learn from us, respectfully
Start expecting greatness from us. Avoid signalling that what we do is less than, or worse,
easy.
Remember you have no idea looking from the outside at other companies how hard/easy,
slow/quick, expensive/cheap, or wasteful/expensive tactics are. Beware all “best
practices” and success stories you read. Marketers and sellers are well, sometimes good
at what we do.
Ask us how to think about what our options might be, rather than starting with “I have an
idea,” or worse, “why don’t we just ______?”
Start with the impact and numbers you want to see, then let us work them back to how.
(Not the other direction.)
TIP 8
LET US BE PEERS
Even if we’re stacked, still set the table for 2.
TIP 9
FIRE FAST
Yes, I did.
How to save, or not, your sales and marketing marriage
Step One: Family Meeting. Take the smallest group possible aside and express your
concerns. Give the team a short time to sort out differences and concerns, and return to
you with results (not a plan). Best case scenarios come from solves within the relationship.
Step Three: Take Bold Action. Fire the a-hole(s), even if that’s both.
Step Two: Risk Assessment. Determine which function is higher performing and more
gelled, trending into the next phase of your business. Key indicators, in order of priority:
(1) Which has the strongest next line leaders? Strongest = happiest + best performing.
For clarity: retain the leader with the strongest next line vs. believing they’re more
expendable because of the strongest next line.
(2) Which has the higher inherent attrition risk? Don’t bet on a rising tide.
(3) And only then, which will be more valuable to your results in 18 months from now.
TIP 10
USE “GTM” ACCURATELY
Respect our heritage, what’s been lost and reinvented
You've got the music in you
Don't let go
You've got the music in you
One dance left
This world is gonna pull through
Don't give up
You've got a reason to live
Can't forget
We only get what we give
Final thought: my short distance dedication to you
THANK YOU

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10 Tips: CMO + CRO = Love....Building Lasting Leadership with Gusto's CRO

  • 1. 10 Tips: CRO + CMO = LOVE Building Lasting Leadership Tolithia Kornweibel CRO Gusto @GustoHQ
  • 3. WHO ARE YOU? (Apologies for the predictable hand-raising exercise.)
  • 4. TIPS IN TWO CHUNKS CHUNK ONE: HIRING THE RIGHT LEADERS CHUNK TWO: EMPOWERING THE RIGHT LEADERS "This candidate spent a year in their last job, 18 months at the job before that, and 9 months at the role before that. Too risky. Bring me someone with longer tenures." From: “Why CMOs Of Growth-Stage Companies Can Have Short Tenures” by Erica Seidel, FORBES
  • 5. TIP 1 DON’T BELIEVE THE HYPE Avoid sending signals you expect drama.
  • 6. TIP 2 ALWAYS BE NETWORKING Use your network to learn what you need to do differently, not to find the perfect fit.
  • 8. It’s Basically Mad Libs I’ve been asked directly by the CEO _______________ to reach out to you. He has an incredible track record, taking __ companies public and having __ additional successful exits. This is their first sales/marketing executive hire so you’ll get to build your own team. You’ll report directly to the CEO. This is a unique opportunity to create an entirely new category: ________________. The company has already raised $____ million and is valued at $_____ million/billion! The market is huge: $_____ billion is up for grabs. The company is poised for disruption, with investors who were early in on ____________, ____________, and ____________.
  • 9. Try this instead Hi Tolithia, I’m the CEO of a Series ___ startup.. We are trying to help ___________ customers be able to ____________. So far, we’ve been able to reach _____________ customers. We know we’re doing well with ______________ because of ______________, but we have a lot left to figure out like ______________, _______________, and ______________. I’d be really interested in picking your brain for 30 minutes. Yes - we’re looking for a new leader. But just the opportunity to connect would be huge for me. I understand your time is valuable, so if this is not a good time, I respect that. Any additional referrals or thoughts are greatly appreciated!
  • 10. TIP 4 KNOW YOUR MODEL Or be clear that you don’t.
  • 11. Market Model Guides Leadership Model High Velocity / Low ACV / Product-led ● Hire CMO first. Strategic business leader. Owns revenue. Let CMO have a vote in CRO hire. Opposite ● Hire CRO/CSO first. Strategic business leader. Owns revenue. CRO hires and manages CMO.
  • 12. Signs Durable Sales Leaders Repeatability > relationships Move the middle > Lamborghini for 1 Rule of 40 > valuation Inspires customers and team Experimentally solid Durable Marketing Leaders ROI > budget LTV/CAC > cost per lead Viral coefficient > brand awareness Inspires prospects and stakeholders Experimentally solid
  • 13. If you don’t know your model(s): counter-intuition You need MORE experienced CRO or CMO, not less. (A “full stack” person is a high-level person; else they’ve never gone deep.) Matchmake for chemistry and trust: you don’t know where the role divisions will land. You want a hands-dirty person, but not a playbook-as-default person. (Beware “accelerated implementation.”) Back-channel for “multiple altitude flyer.” Pay cash. A lot. Performance-based is fine. Don’t run your culture where only product or tech are given esteem. If you haven’t yet figured out how to distribute, distribution is more than tactical execution. Those of us who can help you won’t tolerate being diminished.
  • 15. TIP 6 BOTH DRIVE REVENUE, LTV Don’t oversimplify
  • 16. Who owns revenue? Drives LTV? Who owns the CAC budget? Who is the best at our pitch? Who spends time with customers? Who influences product? Who runs experiments? Who drives merchandising? Etc... We do We do We are We do We do We do We do Etc...
  • 17. TIP 7 EXPECT EXPERTISE At your leadership table, we must lead
  • 18. How to learn from us, respectfully Start expecting greatness from us. Avoid signalling that what we do is less than, or worse, easy. Remember you have no idea looking from the outside at other companies how hard/easy, slow/quick, expensive/cheap, or wasteful/expensive tactics are. Beware all “best practices” and success stories you read. Marketers and sellers are well, sometimes good at what we do. Ask us how to think about what our options might be, rather than starting with “I have an idea,” or worse, “why don’t we just ______?” Start with the impact and numbers you want to see, then let us work them back to how. (Not the other direction.)
  • 19. TIP 8 LET US BE PEERS Even if we’re stacked, still set the table for 2.
  • 21. How to save, or not, your sales and marketing marriage Step One: Family Meeting. Take the smallest group possible aside and express your concerns. Give the team a short time to sort out differences and concerns, and return to you with results (not a plan). Best case scenarios come from solves within the relationship. Step Three: Take Bold Action. Fire the a-hole(s), even if that’s both. Step Two: Risk Assessment. Determine which function is higher performing and more gelled, trending into the next phase of your business. Key indicators, in order of priority: (1) Which has the strongest next line leaders? Strongest = happiest + best performing. For clarity: retain the leader with the strongest next line vs. believing they’re more expendable because of the strongest next line. (2) Which has the higher inherent attrition risk? Don’t bet on a rising tide. (3) And only then, which will be more valuable to your results in 18 months from now.
  • 22. TIP 10 USE “GTM” ACCURATELY Respect our heritage, what’s been lost and reinvented
  • 23. You've got the music in you Don't let go You've got the music in you One dance left This world is gonna pull through Don't give up You've got a reason to live Can't forget We only get what we give Final thought: my short distance dedication to you